ppfuf

I must confess, that was my reacion when I heard about this last night.
It's probabaly more that autocrating two major events a year makes it hard to get volunteers for the job.

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zoccolaro.livejournal.com

I think Vittoria might be able to give more details here, but I suspect that the doubly-poor performing collegia were sufficient justification to simply slash one Collegium rather than taking a hard look at the the root cause and trying other means to improve performance.

Sorry if the below comes across as defensive, but it's hard not to take it personally. Even though Spring Collegium, which was wildly successful in terms of attendance and learning, was very poorly successful in terms of cash flow, there was not a thing the autocrat's team could have done. We did the best we could with the crap-tastic situation that was given.

Likewise, with this most recently past collegium, we did our best to try and garner attendance - facilitate a party in the evening for people to stay (for which the autocrat team assumed great personal expenses to facilitate), negotiate hard to get decent sleepin and meeting room rates, offer some really neat classes, advertise, and yet, the people did not come. Although the mix of classes could have been more equally weighted (the inclusion of IKINS might have had some impact as well), the main reason, I believe, is because of its placement on the calendar, shoved in between GWW, Crown, Mists Coronet, and then Cynaguan Coronet. Again, beyond our control.

I've nothing against the decision makers here, but it felt like they were looking more at the pocketbook (which happens to contain tens of thousands of dollars, fyi, not too shabby for a non-profit organization) rather than what we're all about in terms of executing out primary function: "researching and re-creating the arts and skills of pre-17th-century Europe."

Yesterday's event lost ~$650, btw. I think the last Crown made gains significantly in excess of that, but don't quote me on that. I'm just a bit bitter that instead of giving us another shot at trying to improve, they canned things.

Well...nothing is to say that we can't hold a Collegium of our own, even if it isn't bankrolled by the kingdom.

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Money?!? Are you serious?
The kingdom could afford to suck up the (rummor said) $8,000 last year for someone's getting the wrong hotel for 12th night, but a couple of hundred for a collegium is too much!
Are the Kingdom Officer Meeting Minutes published anywhere? I should read them before I fly any further off the handle.

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I suspect that part of our issues with attendance stem from the fact that some strong Western households seem to be getting more insular - I see a continuing emphasis on bringing "your" people up to speed, rather than an emphasis on contributing to the kingdom or principality.

Anyone have further ideas about how we can popularize arts stuff at the kingdom and principality level? The trend with current royalty seems to be towards household/invitational activities (arts classes, practices, etc.), rather than activities that are open to all. Public ones are on the wane, private ones on the rise.

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Private classes are not inherently bad, sometimes it's the only way you can make a project (such as GM's shoe-making workshops) work.
My first guess at making art more public is to ...well, make more art public. Stuff like the cook's playdate. I know some arts are hard to do at events, but perhaps we should take over a corner of the eric and do some hand-sewing or leather working, or something. Perhaps at the next coronet we should ask Juana and Ivar if we can have a little sewing circle on their front porch. I'd suggest using The Saint, but people have gotten weird about walking into other people's public areas. I'll give it some more thought.

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That's entirely true about private classes - my weekend cotehardie workshops are the same way. I didn't mean to imply that they were a bad idea, just that they don't have the same impact on the kingdom when they are by invite only. Hence the need for Collegiums and A&S.

The Saint is dedicated to hosting fighters when it's on the eric for Crowns and Coronets, but we could certainly use it for arts at Coronations - we've done it before :-)

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zoccolaro.livejournal.com

Not sure - but we were warned that we needed to be very budget conscious since the last Collegium lost so much money.

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zoccolaro.livejournal.com

I know that there are some people who would be willing to do all-day sessions, but I think there needs to also be a mix of very basic classes as well. Looking at the morning classes, they were all very specialized - nothing there for someone who is a beginner to kind of just waltz in and learn. Maybe that's something that needs to change also.

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I agree with you 100% -- in fact, I was having *exactly* that conversation with a couple of folks at the gate on Saturday. One idea we came up with is to approach those insular households and ask them to sponsor some tracks at future collegiums. Get their classes our of their own living rooms and backyards and into the mainstream where everybody can benefit from them.

It would also go a long way to see support for collegia from our upper echelons. Royalty have been a rare sight at collegia for the past many years -- we can usually count on seeing the queen or a princess or two, but kings and princes are rare. Lots of people say they support collegia, but that support seems to end with half-hearted encouraging other people to go. Hell, even our bigger arts-focussed households don't often show up at collegia, but they have lots and lots of "private workshops."

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So I wrote to Rowan the Kingdom Seneschal to ask about the meeting minutes. He said they didn't keep them, which I find a little odd, considering the way the banks demand to see the minutes every time my local branch changes exchequers, but *whatever*. He did kindly offer to answer any questions I had, so I wrote back that I am unhappy to hear collegium has been reduced to a once-a-year event. And I asked him to tell me how come this decision was made. He said I could cut and paste his response here:
> ...As for the reason
> they are many. The simplest place to start is that we
> have been struggling to do two a year plus all the
> other similar events each year. So what we decided
> to do is put an A&S at one end of the year and a
> Collegium at the other end of the year. This will help
> us in dealing with budget problems which stemmed from
> poor turnouts and autocrat burnout from being stretched
> too thin. Let me know if you have anymore specific
> questions or just call me at XXX-XXX-XXXX(please do not
> post my number to your livejournal)
> Rowan Buchanan
> WK Seneschal
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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Nope, as far as I know KOM minutes haven't ever been published. At least, I didn't. At one point there was a nice lady who'd show up to meetings with her little court reporter's kit and take notes, but I can't even remember her transcribing those into official minutes, and she stopped because she hated going to the meadery.

From:

lifeofglamour.livejournal.com

eta: for more discussion on the decisions around collegium, please see [info]etaine_pommier's Collegium? post.

Can't, it's a locked post.

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I think the "approach those insular households and ask them to sponsor some tracks at future collegiums" is a great idea. A few collegiums ago I got a great class from one of Richard de Camville's squires after he pressured them all to teach a class.

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Interesting. I had no idea it was so ...informal. Westermark meetings always have a note taker, I assumed it was policy rather than local custom. Thanks for the education.

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Yup, and I think for a while it was pretty common for Queen's Guards and Princess' Escorts (or whatever they're called) to be expected to show up, either to teach or take classes or both. It used to be a great venue to check out people on the watch list. But we're not even encouraging our apprentices to show up and teach any more -- it's just too much effort.

This isn't a new problem. When

mastersantiago and I were collegium chancellors, we considered ourselves lucky if we got 100 people through the door. Now, a good collegium turnout is about 80, and it's dropping.

Like anything else we do, collegium needs a good mix to draw a good crowd. A wide variety of classes, some lecture and some hands-on. A mix of beginner, intermediate and advanced level classes. It needs to be talked up a lot. (

bonacorsi had a great idea when she used the privy press to advertise collegium a couple of years ago -- she'd put a tag line for a single class on each ad, with the little tear-off strips at the bottom with the collegium url on them.)

It needs visible support, from all of us, not just whining about how far away it is, or how there's nothing interesting going on there, or how tired we are from going to Crown and Coronet.

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vittoriosa.livejournal.com

I know it's hard not to take this personally, but I am actually ok with the decision. Or, I was until I saw Rowan's re-posted comment below that it was really ALL about the money... because as I see it there were a number of other factors that are of far greater concern. The money thing was an issue last spring, but that was beyond our control, and despite all the other hindrances attendance was more than DOUBLE the average. I'd call that a wild success, and regardless of anything else I think we should be really proud of that accomplishment.

I think there were really just two reasons we couldn't replicate that success this time. First, the overcrowded calendar (so many people are committed to Crown and one or the other Coronet that if you have to take a weekend off, well, Collegium seems the least vital...not because it's arts vs fighting, but because there's no court, meetings or other official business tied into the event). Second, the nasty political drama that's going around is making a lot of people cut attendance back to an absolutely minimum, if not boycotting outright. And aside from that, we can't discount that the economic situation has gotten grimmer, rather than better, for many people during the intervening months; so the general population is probably attending fewer events on average.

I guess we could have been more aggressive with advertising and recruiting, but honestly, I doubt it would have made much difference; the most affecting factors were beyond our control. I don't think we should let the financial loss determine whether yesterday's event was a success or not.

In the interest of full disclosure -- even though I didn't go to the meeting, I did chat briefly with Rowan right before lunch, since I happened to see him in the lobby. I did express my concerns that the low attendance was due mostly to how over-saturated the October event calendar was, and suggested moving it later in the year. I did also suggested that perhaps having a single Collegium in Jan/Feb, as a winter counterpart to A&S, would draw bigger attendance, compete less with other events, and thus be more successful. I promise that suggestion had *nothing* to do with money! And, frankly, I thought the topic was just being opened for discussion...I was extremely surprised to learn that the decision was made so quickly.

Here are the reasons why reducing to one Collegium is a good thing:

- Organizing two events per year over two years is a big job, especially if the office is held by a single person. We want this to be a job that isn't so overwhelming it scares people away!

- Since A&S got pushed back to June, it has affected Spring Collegium. Last year during our teacher-recruiting efforts we ran into a number of people who said "I'm already planning to teach at A&S and I don't have the time to do both." Obviously, there are an equal number of us who DID teach at both events! But that proximity still affected out recruiting efforts, I think.

- October calendar overcrowded, obviously.

- Opens up the calendar for A&S/Collegia run by principalities and smaller branch groups. This is something that has fallen out of fashion and would be brilliant to resuscitate.

- Gets art out of the ghetto. I know that seems counterintuitive, because it can appear that reducing Collegium is just a further symptom of marginalization of the arts in favor of fighting-centric stuff. BUT I think it's actually a great opportunity for us to bring arts/teaching into the mainstream, finding more ways to incorporate them into other Kingdom events rather than just cordoning them off into their own specialized events. Specialization is good, and I love a weekend-long arts-fest as much as anyone, but I would also like to see the artsy goodness become a more integral part of the rest of our events. I'm perfectly willing to trade one less Collegium for more consistent arts presence the rest of the year.

I know I'm being the cockeyed optimist here, but really -- if the upshot is that Collegium as an institution becomes stronger (bigger, better and more accessible), AND local arts/teaching events have more freedom to flourish, really, what's so bad about that?

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http://etaine-pommier.livejournal.com/241052.html is the unlocked link

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http://etaine-pommier.livejournal.com/241052.html is the unlocked link

From:

syele.livejournal.com

Yes! I think this is a great idea! Though, this does get us back to the concern that I have heard some chatelaines voice in the past 'but I threw a newcomer's class and no newcomers came'...but I do think that an introductory class track could be a very big draw, if done well and, more importantly, advertised well.

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syele.livejournal.com

(I got *so* much flack for making my guard do a class....I'm a tyrant)

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callistotoni.livejournal.com

I like your points.

I'm thinking of a post of my own on this topic, but I'd like to throw out these 2 opinions:

-- Collegiums are super-good for classes that require visual aids, such as HRJ's class on exisiting garments. They are also super-good for discussion classes dealing with the social questions about what we are doing in the SCA. Examples of the latter are HRJ's "mental map" class she gave in April, or the 2-part Lull class given by Janos and Etaine, where I wound up having philosophical discussion that lasted after class was over with someone I'd never talked to before. These sorts of intellectual-exercise classes are of limited interest to the SCA as a whole, but collegium are great places to find others that are interested, and to give those discussions a place to exist.

-- But there is, IMHO, and overall trend in the West to integrate "Arts" into historical playspaces that exist at 'regular' events. This last weekend's 14th C cooking playdate is a great example. That had a big turnout, relatively, and I think it opened some people's eyes as to what's possible. The PPF and all of it's offshoots are another. I think that even at fighting-specific events such as Crowns and Coronets and Wars, Art-activities are becoming less of a sideline and more of a destination activity in and of themselves.

Therefore my first reaction is that one "traditional" WK Collegium per year is OK, and that classes and playspaces will continue to be pursued and "mainstreamed" into Kingdom and Principality events.

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Big meanie.

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xrian.livejournal.com

Do keep the Needleworkers Guild in the loop here, most notably our new Guild Minister

the_lbk. She might be interested in co-sponsoring a "stitch and bitch" in a conspicuous spot if we could find a spot. (She's offered her pavilion more than once, but it's not a big sunshade...)

The Needleworkers Guild also has its own pavilion, which is not right on the eric (it's somewhat non-period) and is only present at some Crown events (the owner's got health problems at the moment)... but it's fairly large, and not much used.

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really? from the guards themselves or from other people? Either way that's too bad. I went to the panel discussion at spring collegium and found it very interesting.

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syele.livejournal.com

From other people, primarily.

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thelbk.livejournal.com

my intention is to start with a push for local workshops/needle worker's nights.

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thelbk.livejournal.com

I would like to point out though that if a Collegium is not held in the Mists for one year then the Mists A&S is supposed to throw a Principality collegium...

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aimeric.livejournal.com

Several people have cited fatigue-factor as being one of the reasons why they skipped Collegium - so many events in October.

Therefore, I move that we cut back from 3 Crowns a year to two ;)

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trystbat.livejournal.com

Make sure not to call them "newcomer's" classes in the advertisement / listings. It's off-putting bec. few ppl want to admit they're n00bs. "Introduction to Blackwork" & "Holy Grail 101: Everything You Wanted to Know About the Grail (But Were Afraid to Ask)" are friendlier, welcoming titles for beginner classes.

And then, yeah, some longer, in-depth sessions, which doesn't have to mean super-expert level either. Making a pouch can take 3 hours+ & can include a historical overview w/design & sewing, yet only requires basic stitching skills.

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hunrvogt.livejournal.com

"I did also suggested that perhaps having a single Collegium in *Jan/Feb*, as a winter counterpart to A&S, would draw bigger attendance, compete less with other events, and thus be more successful."

Yes, Yes, Yes, This!

Let's have the indoor events when the weather is crappy!!!!!

Not in Spring and Fall, when I want to be outside and the weather is nice over most of the Kingdom :)

-Else

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j-i-m-r.livejournal.com

* Dropping one general interest collegium from the calendar frees up room for more special interest collegia.
* If A&S is *again* the weekend before June Crown, can the two events please, please, please be at the same site and have the site open for the week in between. Those who want to can have a long camp out and even if you can't stay, you can leave your camp set up so there is less schlepage.

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